Fighting for Legacy: Damian Darker on Discipline, Resilience, and Creating Opportunities

In this episode of We Are The People, we sit down with Damian Darker, a European kickboxing champion, dedicated coach, and proud father. Damian takes us through his journey, from childhood days inspired by Power Rangers and Chuck Norris to becoming a trailblazer in Irish kickboxing.

He shares the discipline and respect instilled by traditional martial arts like Taekwondo, the highs and lows of competing on the world stage, and the sacrifices that come with being a fighter in an underfunded sport. Beyond his personal success, Damian is passionate about creating opportunities for future fighters, building a legacy of support and inclusivity in the world of combat sports.

We also dive into the transformative impact of becoming a parent, as Damian reflects on how having a daughter has reshaped his mission to build a more equitable world—both inside and outside the ring.

This episode is packed with insights on resilience, mindset, and the power of lifting others as you climb. Whether you’re a fan of martial arts or simply love a story of perseverance and purpose, you won’t want to miss it.

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Transcript

Damian Darker 

 Damien, welcome. How are you buddy, thanks for having us. Not at all, not at all.

So can I take you back to when you were a kid? What did you want to be when you were growing up?

A coach and a martial artist really from the get-go I think. They were kind of always my role models really. People that were coaching, people that were teaching me martial arts, that was kind they were always the people I looked up to really.

So I kind of had a goal throughout my whole kind of career, all the way through martial arts, through school, through college, to even working as a personal trainer and stuff now. I kind of had my sights set on that from very early on really.

So as much as you wanted to participate in the sport, you still had an eye on actually coaching people from a young age?

Yeah, even from a young age I believed that they were invincible really, you know, the coaches in a sense. So I kind of wanted to take part in it and I believed obviously when I was good enough to coach, I'd be good enough to win things and stuff like that. So it kind of went hand in hand as far as I was concerned.

So yeah, that was always kind of before I was good enough to or in the competition pool to even know what I wanted to win, I thought if I could be a coach, I'd be on the right path, you know, that kind of way. So even though it doesn't go hand in hand at all, there's people that are really good teachers and compete, but at a young age that's what we kind of thought. So they kind of went hand in hand.

And what sport was that in? Was that kickboxing? It was Tae Kwon Do when I was younger.

So I started off with Tae Kwon Do and yeah, watching Power Rangers and things like that and those kind of things. And my mother and I would have been watching Walker's Texas Ranger and Chuck Norris and all that kind of stuff. So they were kind of martial arts things that I was mad into and even Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all that kind of stuff.

I did martial arts kind of team programs. Yeah, whether they were adult programs or, you know, I'd be watching with my parents or whatever. It was kind of kids things like Power Rangers or whatever.

They were kind of the things that had me attention from a young age, you know, five, six, seven. And then my cousin was doing Tae Kwon Do. So that's how we kind of started.

My parents just said we'll bring him over to the community center, which was local. It was only a stroll across the road. And we went over there and yeah, kind of stepped with it.

I wouldn't say it was an instant kind of love either, you know. It was like that kind of love-hate relationship, like being a typical kid. I don't want to go.

And you know, sometimes it wasn't like I was just, I knew that was all I wanted to do. It was a bit of persistence from my parents and wanting me to always do something and push me in the right direction. That kind of kept me in it, I suppose.

And that respect thing is interesting because obviously there's coaches in every sport, but I wouldn't say there's that same level of respect for coaches in every sport that you clearly had.

Yeah, there's definitely. And even with Tae Kwon Do, it was kind of a very traditional martial art. And even now that I'm in the kickboxing world, it's not as traditional.

So in Tae Kwon Do, we would have had suits that would have had to be washed and, you know, every time you came to training, you'd have to have your belt toyed, you'd have to bow, enter in the room. You'd be speaking Korean and learning more Korean as you went up to the grading syllabus. And it was real traditional.

Whereas in the kickboxing world now, there's some clubs out there that don't even do a grading syllabus. And yeah, it's kind of not as traditional. Although you'd always demand that respect as a coach from your pupils and from your students, but it's not as traditional and not as expected, should we say, nowadays.

But I think starting in Tae Kwon Do definitely instilled that in us. That you're very respectful to your coach and stuff. So that kind of stood by me.

And yeah, it's a good trait to have, I suppose.

How do they maintain that in the world? In the world outside of Tae Kwon Do, where traditions are kind of falling by the wayside everywhere you look?

Yeah, it's like a lot of things, I suppose. If it's a passion of yours and you kind of instill it, yeah, it goes a long way, I suppose. Like a lot of things that are still there.

You know, ancient traditions are still there, I suppose, the church and everything. But even in Tae Kwon Do, thinking of all these kinds of things that are quite traditional, the grading, when the gradings are going on, even the instructors will be wearing suits. So they'll be coming in a shirt and tie and suits while they're grading you and marking you.

Whereas even that now is something that Tae Kwon Do clubs still have and other martial arts, as I said, don't even do grading syllabus sometimes. And by grading, I'm kind of expecting people to know what it means. It'd be like going from a white belt, as just when you first start to maybe an orange belt, green belt, whatever, whatever way people have different rankings and belts in different orders in a sense.

And that's where it becomes a bit confusing. But when we started in Tae Kwon Do, if I can remember these, the belt rankings now correctly, it was white belt as you start and you get a yellow tip, yellow belt, green tip, green belt, blue tip, blue belt, red tip, red belt, and then it's a black tip. And I got my junior black because I was still young enough as a kid.

And then I graded from a senior black belt when I became a senior. And that's in Tae Kwon Do, WTF Tae Kwon Do, so Olympic Tae Kwon Do. And then in kickboxing, it's a little bit different.

It varies to different disciplines and organizations. But so that kind of gives people that don't even want to compete a goal as well, which is something that gets lost in kickboxing. Sometimes it's the grading syllabus.

Oh, so you can actually progress through the rankings without fighting anyone? Yeah, exactly. So you do have to spar in your own club, you will have to spar, but like that, every case is individual in a sense.

So you used to think like a black belt, black belt would kick your ass, you know, black belt can mean a lot of different things. You get someone that's paid their dues and they've been in a club maybe 20 years, like just just walking and they've no intentions of fighting, but they're coming and they deserve the black belt because they've put the work in, you know, and they in their individual case, somebody that's consistent training three times a week for 20 years or something. So every black belt is individual, it doesn't mean the black belt is going to kick your ass, you know, it gives everybody an opportunity to have something to aim for.

So it's good, you know, and clubs that keep grading syllabuses, you see that they're quite busy, because again, it just caters for all sorts of people. Not everybody wants to fight, you might only get a couple of people that walk through your doors that are interested in fighting, you know. As you were going through school, did you have kind of a reputation then as the taekwondo kid?

Yeah, yeah, kind of like jokingly in a sense, like, you know, and like, and that's the thing as well, taekwondo isn't, it's not a martial art that people would be kind of like, it's not really cool, boxing would be a cool, you know, like, in a sense, like, and this is kind of how it always was when I was kind of coming up. So I would have kind of been very quiet in competing and just doing my taekwondo throughout the years, I wouldn't have really been talking about it too much. Because again, it wasn't really the in thing, I was the only person in my school doing taekwondo, well, my cousin as well, but that was kind of it.

So yeah, there was that bit of hesitancy to be talking about it, or bragging about it. And again, I think it came with the respect as well that was drawn, that was kind of taught to me to not be using it outside of school and all that kind of stuff. And again, that goes a long way, I suppose, you know, you're not going out there trying to be kicking people on the streets and doing this all sorts of stuff, you know, because yeah, even as a child, we were told that in taekwondo, you'd be drilled into it, if you're using it outside on the streets, you'd be in trouble.

And that as a child, it'd be terrifying, you know, much easier for getting in trouble by my coach, you know, that kind of thing. Whereas sometimes nowadays, that's definitely lost in the world of martial arts, you know, people just think it's, yeah, you can defend yourself, great, which it is great. But sometimes people are going out there to start a bit of trouble.

So you definitely have to still root those people out and make sure that they're planning on doing good with their self-defense, you know.

And did it give you kind of increased confidence in yourself?

Not really, not really. No, it still would always be, you still always doubt yourself. And I always say to people like, I remember being younger and getting punched for the first time out on the street and stuff and being shook, you know, I mean, Jesus, like I've trained for how many years and it's only when you're an adult now and you're thinking back on these situations and stuff, like it's, if it's not normal to you, the only way fights on the street could be could be normal to you is if you are fighting on the street all the time. And I would say the very time, the first time I stepped on the mats or I got into a ring, you're terrified, you know, it's very nerve wracking. And until you do it over and over again, it becomes somewhat less daunting.

But it's all we are, we're still nervous. And so unless we're having fights on the street all the time, it's not going to be normal to you. You kind of have to say that to people.

And it doesn't matter if you're trying to mash their heads all the time, your instinct and your ability to defend yourself if you got into a fight would be better, but you're not going to be comfortable in the environment so that you're not going to be not shooken up by an altercation on the street. You know, that's not going to be the case. You're still going to be quite rattled.

And that's completely normal. I think people that are better kind of trained are a lot better at walking away from situations. You know, I think people that are just hotheads that don't do any training, don't, I shouldn't say have any life, but people that just do a lot less and have gone out looking for fights and just drinking every weekend and not burning off any energy.

Those people are just going on for trouble. Whereas people that are trained all the time, they're like, what's the point? What's the point of me getting into an altercation here and not being able to train or compete or work for the next two weeks?

I'll just walk away from this. To be honest, that's the biggest thing that training will teach you. You're doing it week in, week out as a sport.

Why would you want to do it on the street and get into the trouble? And the more you're in the sport, the more experienced you are, the more you know that fights can get out of hand pretty quick. It kind of goes the other way.

Instead of being like, oh, I can defend myself, you're kind of like, I know I know how to kickbox, you know, I don't know how to dodge bullets, you know, and I don't know how to be Wolverine just healing up after I get stabbed or whatever. It's just like, you know, things get out of hand really quick and it's just like, why the hell would you be interested in anything like that? You know, it's just like, yeah, walk away from the situation and just bail out of it instead of getting yourself into any trouble.

As you went through school, what was your plan for after school?

Straight away, I kind of wanted, as I said earlier, I wanted to kind of coach and then I was kind of like, right, well, coaching martial arts is definitely something that I want to do, but I wasn't experienced enough yet. I was still young. So it was like, right, well, let's go down the personal training route because that was something that I didn't know how to do.

Again, it kind of went hand in hand. Anytime I've seen anyone that was elite at martial arts, it was always the only strength and conditioning. And again, it was another kind of coaching role, another kind of string I could add to me, to my bow to improve my coaching.

If I had a better understanding of anatomy, physiology and stuff like that. So it kind of went hand in hand and we just went straight into personal training, sports therapy in college. I kind of knew where I wanted to go, although it wasn't very specific.

I kind of just rolled with the punches and just went with it, you know, and I didn't overthink too much, you know. It was just one step at a time, get through the Leaving Cert, okay, what course do I want to go and do? I didn't really have, I think that martial artists, I think can be like that sometimes, they're so focused on training that everything else, things that are quite daunting outside of martial arts, everybody else, like exams and stuff like that, you don't overthink them, you know, you kind of go with the flow on things like that.

And it can be a huge help, things like driving tests and exams that people need to be absolutely perfect and they overthink them. And people that are competing in other aspects, especially combat, nothing kind of comes close to that. How daunting a combat experience is in the sense of a fight, nothing comes close to that, like doing their driving test, what happens if you fail, you just do it again, you know, whereas the average person sometimes, that exam situation can just be so overwhelming, whereas we found an exam situation, to me, it was just like, it's nothing, you know, it's only a pen and paper or a driving test, you know, it's nothing at all. So I found that helped me hugely through life really, just dealing with exam situations because nothing can come close to combat.

How much training were you doing at, say, 18, 19?

Probably like just once, once a day, so probably six days a week, probably. Yeah, probably trying six days a week. And to be honest, that's kind of always been like how my training has kind of been.

Obviously, my training has got a lot smarter and a lot more educated and a lot better, but I've never been a person for, I went through periods now, I'm not going to say I didn't, but like where you're down two a days and things like that, because you think more is better in a sense, but to be honest, the quality has to be there. So too many people just want to put up on Instagram that they're towards the third section of the day ticked off and whatnot, but the quality has to be there of the session. So there's no point just trying it for the sake of trying it because you're seeing someone else do it, you know, the quality of the session and the intent has to be there for something, you have to be working towards something.

So I think my training has got a lot better than the quality, but I've always been a person who's just trying maybe once a day because I've always worked and I've always had something else to do, you know. And what was your social life like as you were doing all that? Yeah, like when I was kind of 15, 16, 17, that kind of stuff, I once, kind of, yeah, just girls and socialising came into my life where you kind of lost me away a little bit with kickboxing, but again, this is having good people in your life that would reach out to you every now and again and be like, you're coming back, you know, sorry I haven't seen you in a few months, you know.

And then you'd always, again, once you've done a bit of martial arts, you'll always have that, especially at a young age, you'll always know when you're going astray and you'll always have that kind of angel on your shoulder telling you, look, you've been slacking now for the last little while, you should be getting back at it, you know. And I think everybody has that internally, but if you're in an individual sport, it's a bit stronger than it is in other people, I think, because you only have yourself to bail you out. So if you're doing like, you know, fighting in an individual sport, it's only you to help you, you know.

So you can't be slacking and then someone else, a team, might help you out, you know. You're going to get found out and nobody likes getting beat up. So that, I always kind of had that people reaching out to me and then also my angel on the shoulder saying, like, you need to get back, you've been slacking, and that self-talk.

And then my parents as well, pushing me back, you know. So yeah, that kind of got me back into it then. And then once I kind of, 19, yeah, 18, 19, 20, started taking it quite seriously.

I had a lot of success when we transitioned to the kickboxing world. So from the Taekwondo, didn't really compete in the Taekwondo, but nothing seriously, nothing like international, you know. But then once I got to kickboxing and when I was kind of through that kind of dodgy patch, should we say, and started becoming senior and started taking it seriously, I was having success, suffered some losses when I just turned senior.

It wasn't really, I didn't really have man strength and suffered some losses, but rebounded back from them and eventually avenged those losses and stuff like that. That kind of proved to me that, right, I was in it for the right reasons that I wanted to be, the best of good and stuff. So then we kind of played on through in full contact, which is a discipline that I'd done previously up until I was about 24.

And I went on to win like Irish titles, multiple Irish titles, then, you know, five nations title, European title, world title across different organizations. And then we transitioned to K1. So for our people that don't know about the disciplines and kickboxing, so we fight in a boxing ring and full contact is kicks above the waist only.

So you can kick and punch, but you can only kick them above the waist and you wear trousers. So if you've seen it from the outside, people aren't, they're not wearing shorts, they're full length pants. And you can only kick above the waist when guys are wearing the pants.

It's kind of the old American kickboxing. So we've done that until I was 24. And then I kind of fell in love with it because all the gyms around me and the only sparring I could get locally, everybody was switching to K1 and everyone's doing a lot more toy boxing gyms and stuff around us, which is all kicks below the waist as well, which completely changed the game.

You know, it's a whole different sport. Sorry, kicks above and below. Yeah.

So once you get, once you can be kicked in the legs, it's, it changes the game completely, you know, if you're not used to it, it's just totally different. I used to think as well, I was ignorant to it when I was, when I was younger, I'd be like, oh, kicking to the head's way harder, you know, kicking to the legs is easy. But it's, it's a scale, it's, it's, it's a scale that you can't get to love.

It's once you go getting kicked in the legs, you'll never go back in a sense, because you feel like you've been living a lie your whole life, you know, I feel like you've been like, I haven't actually been able to defend myself at all. So it's, it's very kind of, it's a big eye opener, I should say, you know, so once I, once I started doing the K1, I just kind of re-ignited that, that spark in me, that I just loved it. It was like a new sport completely.

And I just absolutely loved it. So that I think allowed me to, to not born out and just play on again. So it was literally started, started from scratch again and played on through with that then.

I had a lot of experience through kickboxing that I knew I was already skillful enough to, to, to, to go straight and straight into high level K1 fights and once I adapted, so it took like a year and a bit to adapt to the K1 style. And then I just went straight into kind of deep end and I just jumped straight into the pro game domestically. And looking back on it, if I had a coach that would have been able to direct me better, I would have been saying, you're probably not ready.

But listen, I was, I was grand. I wasn't out of my depth, but I probably wasn't, wasn't starting off in the best, the best foot forward, you know, if I hadn't been able to rack up a few amateur fights, I would have been in a much better position. But listen, it was how we felt at the minute.

I wanted a bit of, a bit of something new and a bit more kind of media attention and all this kind of crap that comes with the pro game in a sense, domestically. You're sick of watching lads getting, getting credit for doing things that I knew I could do, you know, and that's kind of, that's kind of what pushed me into the direction of the pro game domestically. So we jumped straight in and yeah, I had good success and I've never really looked back on it.

Climbed up the rankings domestically in K1 and then I've recently won, won a European, European title so WACO, WACO pro European title and the first Irish person to, to ever win one. So very proud of that. Yeah.

So very proud of that. I won it last year and then defended it this year. So very, very proud of that, that, that accomplishment and trying to, trying to be kind of spearheading the, the Irish K1 kind of circuit and trying to create opportunities and trying to pave the way for, for Irish, Irish footers in the K1 scene, because we're not really known for, known for that sort of footing on the, on the WACO circuit, which is, I believe, one of the, one of the best circuits, you know. Organizations wise, again, trying to paint the best picture for everyone. There's a lot of organizations like in the box and you have the IBF, WBA, WBO, WBC, all this kind of stuff.

So it's the exact same in kickboxing. You have a lot of other organizations. The OISK would probably be the other biggest one.

The IKF is another one. And then you have WACO, W-A-K-O. So you have a few other organizations that are floating about, but you know, people will argue which one is the best.

But I think anyone that's in the know and in the sport will, will know that WACO is the hoist. You can't kind of pull any strings and get yourself into a position that you're not supposed to be in. Yeah.

You have to earn things the hard way. You know, if you're going to get something for WACO, you have to, you have to earn it. And I think people, people know that, people that are in the, in the know.

So again, very proud to have those, those titles and four-star experience I have in. I look forward to trying to create opportunities for many more to follow behind.

Why is that important to you? Why not just take the pride in what you've achieved and, I don't know, sit at home and look at your medals? Why put any energy into trying to pave the way for, for the future?

Because I kind of, I feel like I haven't had the best, the best kind of platform given to me. And I know what, what I could give to people. Because I kind of, like, I've had great coaches throughout my whole, like, my life.

I've only had one main coach, Glenn Heenan. So Glenn literally started for me with Taekwondo when I was four years of age and I started. And he was my Taekwondo coach.

And then he branched off to kickboxing and I followed him then. And I've been with him my whole career really. And then he kind of burnt out and he fizzled out of the sport.

But he's always been my coach. But he didn't compete on the circuit, especially in the, he had a K1 fight and stuff like that years back. But he didn't compete on the circuit enough to have first-hand experience, shall we say.

And it is important. He was great. He is a great coach.

And that taught me a lot and I owe him a lot. For example, I'm the, I'm the first person that went away to represent Ireland at the Wacko Worlds, or Europeans, in K1. So the first K1 fighter to ever go away at a senior level and compete.

So nobody could really tell me how to, how to play the system, you know. So I was going away and trying, literally I've been learning on the, on the fly. I've been going away, losing, paying my own money, by the way, to go away and represent my country, paying my own money to go away, to fight for 10 days.

Non-funded. You're losing, you know. Coming back, trying to take the positives from it and going again the following year.

And stuff like that. And like, I've had wins and then I've always fell short in medals. So that's something that keeps me coming back, you know.

I'm dying to get Ireland's first senior medal. And hence I'm going away now in November, the 1st to the 10th of November. It's on this year in Greece.

So I'll be going again. So that's kind of what keeps me coming back. And then that sort of thing that I know, like I'm out there learning, I'm learning on the go.

And I know the mistakes I've made. And I'm starting to put a system in place myself. And I'm hoping to develop like a system going forward for Ireland then.

So that we will have like a high performance system in place that they'll be like, right, this is how, you know, this is how we get into the lead. This is how we stay in the lead. This is how we navigate the tournament format.

And then the same thing for the pro side of things. I'd like to, you know, have the experience there rather than just sitting there as an armchair kind of coach, being able to just, you know, fill the space. I want to be going out there.

If I'm going to be coaching, I want guys to be going out and meddling regularly and build a system that kind of like your man Zohr has done with the high performance boxing system. People look at him and he's like, he's a legendary coach. You know how many Olympic medals he's got.

And that's kind of what I would like to create a legacy like that. Also in my fighting, people will look back and say, geez, he was a quality fighter, but even greater than that, you know, because kickboxing was on the shortlist for LA in 2028 to get in for the Olympic sport and it fell short and it was K1, which was the discipline. So it would have been my discipline and that would have been my last hurrah to give that a crack to get in.

So that fell short, which is, it was tough, but listen, it is what it is. I've competed my whole life without it being an Olympic sport. So I'm not going to let that kind of, you know, deflate me at this stage.

The fact that it was on the shortlist is amazing. And in a few years, God knows it could get in and like, you know, that would, that would open the doors that we don't have at the minute. Like loads of other Irish fighters that have been alongside me don't have, and they're the reason why we keep losing fighters to other sports because the funding isn't there.

And that's what's hard. It's like when you're paying the 1700 quid or whatever it is out of your own money, they're all waiting for the best lads in the world who do have funding. Some countries do have funding from their sports council, so they don't have to pay.

They just go and compete like the high performance boxers do here. And it's a lot easier when, you know, because like family life and stuff starts taking over. It's like, Jesus, well, you know, we could, we could do with that money, you know, towards house or family holiday or whatever.

Why the hell are you going away competing? You know, like, you know, so it does start weighing, weighing on that, you know, that's why people end up giving up. But if we get into an Olympic Games, because we already have Olympic recognition, but if we get into an Olympic Games, the funding that will open up will be huge and people won't have to put their hand in their pockets.

We'll be able to go on trips regularly. So we would love to be the head coach in regards to that and be the driving force. And God knows, like, I keep talking, my daughter, my daughter now would love, and God knows, like, it does get into the Olympics.

And I'd love to be having a platform like that to coach her towards, you know, that she could be, could be an Olympian one day and things like that, you know, it'd be kind of like the Kylie Taylor and Pete Taylor. So, you know, it'd be really cool. But, but listen, God knows, you know, what, what Faye is going to do, and what my daughter's going to do when she's older.

But these are the little things that, like, I do dream it would be class because I know it's not going to happen in my time, you know, but there are things that kind of are the driving force why I would like to, to create a legacy for everyone else going forward, you know.

It's brilliant to see somebody talking with such passion about something that ultimately is going to benefit other people.

Yeah, yeah, like, and I think, like, Pete, it is great to see those guys get the credit, the coaches that, people that have really, like, made an impact on a sport. Like, as I said, the high performance boxing coaches, people that have been in that system talk so highly of, of the boxers, or of the coaches, should I say, and that's, that's a testament to them. Same thing, even with myself in kickboxing league, there's, there's a guy in kickboxing in Ireland, he's actually the WACO president now.

He is Irish, Roy Baker is his name, and he's, he's done such good things for, for kickboxing in Ireland. He came from the mats himself, into the tammy, so on, on the mat fighting, and again, I don't want to get too complicated and sidetracked, but there's different disciplines of kickboxing. Some of them are in the mats, and some of them are in the ring.

So as I said earlier, we're in the boxing ring, so we're kind of separate disciplines. But even though he's, he came from the mats, and he accomplished, you know, won world titles and stuff like that on the mats, and he's, he's still given a lot of effort and a lot of time towards the ring. And he's, he's supported me hugely, helping me run shows, helping me, and if I wanted to, if I wanted to put me, me kind of neck out there, in regards, down to promoting the show, you know, he was, he was, he was supporting me because he knew it needed to be done in Ireland, which he didn't have to be doing, you know, and he financed it, and then when the show was over, I would pay him back, and, but he was putting his, his, his self on the line, you know, which he didn't have to be doing, kind of like you're saying there in regards, why would I want to do that, instead of just sitting back and looking at me, me, me belts and all that kind of stuff. It's kind of, again, when you're surrounded with people like that, you realise it's nice to be nice, you know, and, and he's, he's gone and, and, and helped me hugely, and it's, it's something that I'll never forget, and I kind of, I owe him dearly for that, you know, and he's been able to help me accomplish some of my dreams with just a bit of support, and it's kind of the same thing, like, I feel that I'd be letting a lot of people down if I didn't put the infrastructure in place and give the people the support that the country can, has the athletes to accomplish, but like, if, if the support's not there, we're going to go around in circles, you know, and people just keep leaving and going to other sports, so there's, there's that kind of, that, that, that kind of combination of reasons to keep, keep me, keep me in it, you know.

People hear that a certain person is a pro athlete, they make certain assumptions as to what their life then is like, what's it actually like being a pro athlete?

Yeah, so I always say to people, like, I'm not a professional athlete, I fight in a professional ruleset, but it's not my profession, you know, and that'd be the best way I'd say to people, and it's so hard in, in fighting, in, in any sort of combat sport, it's so hard because, like I said earlier, you can't half-arse it, you have to commit to it, like it's your job, if you do not give it 100% and train super hard, and it's all you can think about all day long in the lead up to a fight, you're literally just daydreaming, just driving the car, all you can think of is running the fight over in your head and scenario or whatever, whatever's on the horizon in regards to combat. When you're not like that, that's when you definitely know you need to pack it in, you know, you shouldn't be doing it, but it's, it's not giving you the financial reward that it, the amount of time that it's, that it's taking up in your life, you know, you're not getting the financial reward that you should be getting, and, and just speaking now in kickboxing terms, I know a lot of MMA fighters and stuff, even really high level promotion are the same, and they need a lot of social media, financial kind of help, you know, from, from their brand, should we say, to, to assist them, like to pay for the fight, geez, you would never survive, you would never live off it, you know, I don't know.

It's kind of, a lot of them are kind of cash in hand things you know as well so it's up to them to declare it.

But a lot of guys aren't. If you were getting taxed on it, jeez you'd be coming away with absolute pennies. So that's up to them.

I'm self employed so everything that goes through my account I get taxed on. So for me it would be getting even less than that 2.5 grand when it goes through my account. If some guys are working in a local supermarket or whatever, they can do whatever they want with that cash.

But for me, I'm self employed so everything that goes into my account I get taxed on. So that would be including my fight purses. So it would be getting even less at the end of the year when they put it through the books.

But that's the most that I've ever made. If I defend my title again, hopefully it'll be another step up in pay. But it's not what everybody thinks you know.

And I think starting off my first pay was €250 and it just incrementally goes up. But it's not what it's made out to be. You're not living off it.

It's a little bit of pocket change and something that would give you a few drinks after your fight. A bit of drink and money after your fight to celebrate for a hobby that you've done for years, that you've done for free. That's the little, that's the extra little bit.

But you definitely wouldn't be the only accountant to sign up and make money. Money is your driving force, you'll end up giving up. You'll give up, you know.

Obviously I don't have any kickboxing experience or knowledge at all. And I watched one of your, I watched one of your fights there just before we had this chat. And it's ferocious.

What goes through your mind before you get it? Now obviously you've had so many fights now, so I'm sure you're possibly quite used to it. But what was it like getting into the ring for the first time to do that?

How close is that mindset to, say, if you were to fight somebody tomorrow?

Yeah, it's daunting. It's scary. It's nerve-wracking.

It's all those kind of things. And the closer you get to a fight, the more prepared you feel. Or that's how you should feel if you put the work in.

And that's usually how it is. You know you're ready and you know that the nerves are normal and they're part and parcel of it. And again, it's a bit of work that I've done as a sports psychologist and stuff over the last few years.

And it's done wonders for me. And it's something that I should have done years ago. Knowing that you're prepared helps hugely.

But it's looking at it tactically that gets me through it. And that's how I approach fights. I'm not really an aggressive kind of person.

Some people are. Some people will go out and just try and blast you in 30 seconds and just look for the knockout and just go out all the time with that mentality of just trying to take your head off. But for me, it would be going out locked in mentally that I'm going out to win at all costs.

But it'd be a tactical approach rather than trying to blast somebody out of there in 30 seconds. Because it's not the smartest approach. If things don't work out that way, you're in serious trouble then.

You probably spent yourself in 30 seconds and then you're going to be in serious trouble then. So that wouldn't be my approach. So it'd be more of a tactical mindset going into fights.

Just looking at what are their weaknesses and what can you do well and what can I do better than them and how is my best route to victory. And that would be the diagnosis really of just trying to pick them apart tactically and then implement a game plan. So yeah, when you're doing it as long as you can, that's the kind of approach rather than being like looking at it like a fight.

It is a fight, don't get me wrong. But it's not just us. We're going out there with a game plan and obviously you have to be able to think on the fly but if things aren't going according to plan.

And then there's a lot of psychological things that the sports psychology element has helped UOG to just keep you grounded because it is very easy to get to listen to all those negative thoughts and just get carried away and just become overwhelmed with the whole situation. But with experience and the right preparation and all the stones left, no stone left unturned should we say, it all comes together.

I think that side of it, we all obviously have self-doubt no matter what we're doing. How has a psychologist been able to positively impact you? What are the kind of practical things that they've done for you there?

It's very individual for everybody. I've done a lot of sports psychology things like little sessions or little talks from sports psychologists over the years. I train in camps and stuff like that and you're expecting like after this one session I'm going to be just invincible.

But I just advise anyone if they have any interest, I tell all my students and kickboxing and stuff like that, if you want to be investing money into yourself, go and do it and invest your time into it and work with a therapist or a sports psychologist or someone that can help you and get to know you because everyone has their own insecurities or their own weaknesses and it's about just targeting them individually because their insecurities are what they might do.

Totally different to mine and there's different approaches to everyone and it's like that man management kind of thing. One thing that my sports psychologist has kind of helped us with was recognizing that the nerves are normal. It's perfectly normal that you've been here hundreds of times before and nerves have always been there.

Any negative thought that I do have, I logically think of it and then rather than just being like, oh no, I can't deal with that because I'm in the moment now and it's going to wreck it, I'd be like, what if I got dropped? What if he hits me with that shot and I get dropped? I compose myself and I'll take the eight count and I'll go again and think clearly, why do I need to be afraid of that thought?

Just think of it and then in one ear out the other and then back to positive thinking. It's always a possibility, let's not be delusional, let's not be like, oh that's not going to happen, just completely ignore the idea. So if it happens, we'll take the count and we'll go again.

Like the fight that you were actually talking about and previously before we came on the camera that you were watching, I got hurt in that first round and that first round was just a shit show for me. But I was just, rather than just being like, that's one of those days that and that was actually my very first fight working with this sports psychologist and that was a testament really, to be honest, that we'd done so much work to being just present and just not letting the negative thoughts of the sport out of control and that was my first round was just horrific. I got clipped, hurt, didn't get a count or anything, didn't go down but I was really hurting that round and he kind of pulled the pressure on and he won the first round but then he cleared my head in the second round and during the break and then second and third round were quite dominant and I felt really good.

But usually that would have been pretty hard to switch that. It probably would have been just negative, negative, negative and it's one of those nights and just accepting that but it didn't really allow the sport out of control and I was able to get back thinking logically and being present and that was a benefit to the sports psychologist but it is very individual. The Devaney fight?

Yeah, Liam Devaney.

And as somebody, again, the uneducated watching it, I was going, Jesus, is Damien okay there? And then it was like a completely different person in the next two rounds. You're talking about there was the psychologist but equally the importance of a good coach and being able to talk that through must be huge.

Yeah and again, once I got clipped in the first round, it was nearly like, and it becomes a thing, it's like you're not thinking consciously, you've been buzzed and hurt and your brain's not firing correctly and you're not able to think logically, should we say, so sometimes when you get hit, I was looking to just throw spinning attacks that I wasn't setting up and I just kept missing and it was just a huge momentum shift and it was hard to bounce back from in that round. It was just like, Jesus, keep missing with this and I wasn't really there.

Nearly like you're drunk, nearly just trying to get your coordination back, you're like, what's going on? And then anyway, I went back to the round. The last few seconds of the last round, I kind of start thinking a bit more clearly.

Then during the round, the rest, my coach was like, you haven't thrown a single leg kick. Literally his leg is there to be kicked and you haven't thrown a single kick to the leg in the whole round. And then that was the huge takeaway.

And then for the second and third round, I just kicked the legs and it got me into a good flow then. And then that's ultimately the thing you always want is, how can you unlock that flow state? And that's the biggest thing, the sports psychology, sports psychologist will try to be able to, you'll try and come up with a system to be able to unlock that flow state.

And it's very hard. It's very intricate and it's not a very straightforward process. And it's still even the thing to, because it's not like you're just going out there to do a dance.

You obviously have a dance partner as well. It's not going to allow you to just do whatever you want to do. So it's very intricate, but that's the ultimate thing that everybody wants is to get into that flow state.

It's hard to describe it, but it's just, you're in a flow, everything feels good and you're grooving really. There's just no stopping it then. Everything feels like it's landing and it's gone good.

There were complete contrasts, as I said, from round one to round two and three, to even get into a flow in round two and three and not just have to grind it out. It was great. So that was a huge testament to the coaching, sports psychologist that I worked with.

And then also me being able to put it all into play at the same time.

Another thing that struck me was the power that you're hitting each other at or with. Heads are kind of flying back after being hit. What does that feel like?

Yeah, the best way to describe it to people I'd say is, it's a funny one, but like in a fight with the adrenaline and stuff like that, it's not sore. You know, nothing's like sore in a sense. You know, it'd be like you stubbed your toe off the bed.

Like you'd be like, that was really fucking sore. Like, you know, that was like the pain of that. But if you went outside and you got knocked down by a car, somebody wouldn't really say it was that sore.

Like, you know, like they wouldn't really say it. It's like, it was so sore that you can't, it's, it's, it's fight or flight. Like it's, it's get up and keep moving or you're going to be killed here.

You know, like it's, it's that kind of intensity to it, you know? So it's just numb. Yeah.

Like shots that will hit you, obviously in the head, you don't, you don't feel it. You know, you might get knocked unconscious, but people don't, you don't feel it. If you get your nose broke or your eye socket broke or something, that's a different story.

Now we haven't really experienced that, but something like that would be a bit different. You know, shots don't really feel painful in a sense, you know, a body shot would, would be painful. If you got caught with it, you probably struggled to breathe and go down there.

We've never had that thankfully. We've dropped plenty of people with body shots and they look like they're in excruciating pain. Yeah.

So, but thankfully I've never experienced it. But it's that analogy of, as I said, getting knocked down by a car, you don't really say that, what's that sore, you know? Yeah.

It's in comparison to like a mini pinch or stubbing your toe off the bed. They're fucking sore. Those things are sore, you know?

At the end of that fight, you were hitting each other pretty hard and there was a lot of aggression involved. And then at the end of the fight, I think it was like straight away, he was certainly smiling, giving you a hug. You were embracing him and you dropped to the floor and kind of, what looked like a kind of a show of respect to each other.

Is that what that is?

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is a show of respect.

Now Liam is, he's an absolute gent. So like how that fight came about, we were matched on the same card. I was fighting like a weight class below him at 78 kilos and he was fighting, he was matched at 81.

And then his opponent pulled out and my opponent pulled out. Our opponents that pulled out, they weren't their mates with each other. And then the product came to us and said, would you fight each other?

And to me, I was like, I was a bit hesitant at first because I knew it's a fucking hard fight. But I should have beaten Liam, you know? But I knew it wasn't going to be hug and walk in the back.

He's like a dog and I knew he was a dog and he's a big boy, a really big boy at that weight. He no longer fights at that weight. He's gone up and he's went on to win European and world titles in other promotions, other organisations.

So I knew it was a hard fight and there wasn't much to gain from it. So I was kind of like, at first I was like, right, I'll do it. But I said to the promoter, get me, the title fighter, reward me after I take this fight because we're saving the fight.

We're both fighting each other to save the fight rather than him losing two fights. We're saving it. So we're doing him a favour.

But I wanted to kind of be rewarded in a sense for taking the risk. Now I knew I could beat him, but it was a fight I should have won. But I knew it wasn't going to be easy sailing, playing sailing.

It was going to be a difficult one. But Liam, he was very respectful in the lead up. Even when the fight was announced, he was like, this is his dream fight.

He was like, I've always wanted to fight Damien. Ever since I started the sport. He's not been in the sport that long as well.

His rapid progress, I think he was, they were over a week, him and his brother, and he started the combat, started the fight boxing, kickboxing. I think, I don't want to be saying the wrong amount of years, but five years or something ago. And he really just skyrocketed, just wanted to start fighting really quick.

And I could see him climbing the ranks, and I knew it would eventually kind of clash one day. But he was very respectful in the lead up. He was like, this is the dream fight that I wanted.

So I knew he was coming, coming guns blazing. Although he was being respectful, I knew he was coming, he had a point to prove. So I didn't acknowledge that in the lead up, I just kind of ignored it.

But once he got the job done, he was again, still so respectful. He was just delighted to have shared the three rounds. And I was just like, thank fuck, the second or third round went away.

Because I was just like, yeah, it's a fucking nightmare that round won't, you know, he just put the pressure on, big boy, everything I was expecting, but he just clipped me. But thankfully, second or third round went the way it did. But he was super respectful.

And we actually trained together then, in the lead up then last year, he was fighting for a European title in another organization, and I was fighting for the WACO European title. And we both sparred each other and helped each other in the lead up to that. Then we both went away and won, one weekend after the other.

So we brought two European titles back, which was great. And then I sparred him last, this year, sorry, early this year, in the lead up to the defence of the European title. And then he went on to win a world title in another promotion, or organization, should I say, as well this year.

So he's went on to do great things to his new weight class, the weight class above. So nothing but respect for him. And that's all that was, we got the end of that fight.

It was just an amazing each other. And he was just delighted, big smile. And yeah, it was just like, yeah, what a fucking fight.

And it's just, nothing can really come close to that level of respect that you have for someone when you've kind of shared that kind of a fight with them. And you share a lot of similar morals with the person, you know, just really nice guy. He has a young daughter, similar to myself, and things like that.

And just a gent all around. So that's all that was after that, just an embrace.

Is that typical of kind of relationships between fighters? Or is it kind of what you see on TV of the boxers who just, you know, it just seems like you have to haste the other fella?

Yeah, it's kind of, it depends on the person, you know. It does just depend on the person. Yeah.

Like if somebody's fake and fully showy, it's hard to be liking them, you know. Like the guy that I was actually meant to fight before, he pulled out, and I ended up fighting Liam that time. He's just an arsehole, you know, he's just, he's dope.

Even in the lead up to those pictures, the lead up to that fight, I knew he was going to pull out. I knew he wouldn't actually fight. And he just wants to be on the poster.

So all I did was I just kept covering his face with a clown emoji. I never put his face, his face actually next to my face on the poster, because I knew that's all he wanted. So I just kept covering it with a clown emoji all the time.

And true, true, you know, true be not, he just pulled out eventually. And yeah, he was, you know, just showed he was a clown. He had no interest in fighting, he just wanted to be on the poster and stuff.

So you get guys like that, and they be giving it all out on social media. But the real fighters kind of know who those guys are, and they're kind of laughing stock amongst the community of actual fighters. And yeah, you can cut through all the bullshit with real fighters, everyone on the circuit knows who's real, who's a good fighter.

You know, we've all kind of sparred around with each other. And sparring's not fighting, but at the same time, you know when guys are really about it, after just, you know, trying to be someone that they're not, you know, or trying to be trying to be the next Conor McGregor, when the reason why Conor was successful is because that's who he is. He's not putting it on, you know, and that's very evident to everybody that that choice to portray a character that's not really them.

The element of kind of celebrity, or being well known, do you get recognized, or you know, what's your level of fame?

No, I definitely won't lie to you, I'd actually laugh. My wife, my wife, I want my wife, I want Rebecca over there. I love an L person stopping me and saying that they recognize her, they went to one of my fights, and you know, can you get a picture?

I love it, Rebecca f****** got my badge, you know, so I wanted Rebecca off, you know, so I just absolutely love it. So yeah, you know, it's not a regular occurrence at all. Jesus, okay, don't get me wrong, but for a fight night or whatever, like I had one there recently, and someone just said, oh, you know, I recognize you fam, was that your last fight, and can I get a picture?

And I said, yeah, definitely, and I love it, you know, and I'm like, make sure you tag me on Instagram, so I can show Rebecca. So it's nice to be recognized for something that you're doing, but again, definitely wouldn't be a regular occurrence, you know, for sure, definitely not, you know.

I was going to ask, like, what happens after you're finished fighting, but it's quite evident from when you were six, what's going to happen.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's, things could change, you know, it is hard, it is hard to, even when people ask me the question, like, how many fights have you got left, you kind of look, it's very hard to say how many, because, like, you just, you, like, I believe I'm in my prime, I believe I'm 32 now, and I believe I'm the best I've ever been, like, tactically, you know, mentally, physically, I believe I'm definitely in my prime, but having a kid now is definitely a game changer, like, she's, she's, she's definitely, she's the best, but it's definitely, like, more time consuming, and then I would talk about the demographic, like, the way life has changed, I suppose, like, now, like, years ago, the woman would have done everything, and the man would have, like, if you wanted to fight, like, you'd be going, like, keep trying and fighting, and I'm not saying, like, I do everything, geez, that's, Rebecca will tell you that is not the case, but, like, it's definitely a 50-50, like, we both need to be working in order to sustain our lifestyle, and to have a house, or to have, you know, fight and crash, or, you know, it's not like she can stay at home and do all that, or you can earn, you know, it's, it's, the cost of living nowadays, you need two people, really, and working, it's very, it's very difficult, so I think that is a huge shift, really, and it's something that, like, has made me kind of be like, right, it's, it's definitely hard to be keeping it going, you know, just with the time that you have, and people always say to me, in regards to family life as well, like, it'll be gone in the blink of an eye, and that's something that you're conscious of as well, it's like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be going fighting the past, like, I want to be honest with myself, and stopping when I know I'm kind of, when I'm at the, at my best, you know, rather than sliding too far down, and getting knocked out, and losing, and stuff like that, but it's very hard to accept when that is, you know, because you always think you have another gear, and another gear, because that's the way it's always been so far, I've just been getting better, and better, and better, but definitely with family life, it's, it's a tough one to be juggling, you know, you're trying to juggle it, you're trying to spend time, and be present, and with your daughter as she's growing up, and as I said earlier, there's nothing quite like, like, fighting to make it not present at all, like, you're just literally thinking about the fight that's coming up, you know, and, and if any fighter would tell you that, that it's just, it's all you can think about, so like, in the lead up to a fight, like, I have times where I'll be playing a fight, dealing with her, obviously, but as soon as we're walking home, all I'm doing, doing is daydreaming about the fight, you know, instead of being like, all right, what are we gonna do next, you know, it's like, you're just, it's, it's all that lives on your brain, it's how much you can deal with that, and so it is, there's, there's a lot that we're, I'm juggling, so that's why, I find it very difficult when I'm saying to people, like, my fight till I'm 40, you know, at least you don't know, if I came off my next fight, God forbid, touch wood, it doesn't happen, but if I came off and I got, you know, horrifically knocked out, I could be like, right, that's it, I'm done after that now, because I just don't want to go on after that, and thankfully that's never happened to me, and I've been able to keep it going as a sport, something that I love, but it could, it could be just one thing like that, that could completely change it, and I'd be like, right, I'm done, and it's the same thing, as I said, with the, as we're kind of going into there with the coaching, it's like, what are you gonna do when you're finished fighting, like, if I do end up fighting till I'm 40, like, I could be sick of the combat world, and it could be like, I'm actually done, I got a lot more out of my career than I thought, and I'm actually just burnt out now with what I wanted to do, what I thought I wanted to do eight years ago, you know, so you just, you just never know, at the minute now, I kind of see where I want to go, and I get great buzz out of coaching, I love it, but it's, it's hard to be doing both, it's hard to be competing and coaching, you know, and it is, it is hard, so that's what my plan, like I explained earlier, is my plan now, but it's not to say that's set in stone, it could easily, it could easily change, you know, it could, yeah, it could change pretty quick.

How important is it being a dad and doing the 50-50 in the, in the parenting, as opposed to, you know, taking the old school approach?

It's huge, I think it's, yeah, it's huge, like, it's, like, you want to instill the morals and the things that you have, you want to really instill them in, in the person, you know, like, like, yeah, it'd be very hard to, like, let Rebecca do everything, and then, like, I don't know, it's hard to even put into words, but, like, you want to, you want to get that perfect balance from the two of your, of the, from the two of you, from the, from the, from the mother and the father, you know, and instill the best of both, kind of, upbringings, and get the perfect balance, you know, like, there's definitely things that I do, that aren't the best, and Rebecca will correct me, and then vice versa, you know, Rebecca might protect her too much, and I'll be like, no, she can't, you know, and it's, you're trying to, you work as a team to try and get the best of both worlds, and I think, yeah, anyone that's whether they're a single parent or whatever, the help from someone else is, is hugely important, you know, and to get that, that balance, but I'd never be able to, to not do that, the bond is too strong, and you're just trying to, trying to instill what you can into her, you know, and, and she's, she definitely won't be kickboxing in the Olympics if I'm not helping her anyway, so, so we definitely need to be putting some sort of shift in, like you said. She could be playing, she could be playing basketball in the Olympics.

No, that's what I said to Rebecca, she could be playing basketball, there's a lot more money in basketball, that's for sure, I don't know why I wanted to kickbox at all, to be honest, there's no fucking money in it, but yeah, I keep saying to Rebecca, even if I had her one day a week, she could still accomplish what I wanted her to accomplish in kickboxing, and I was just saying, just see a market there for, you know, I could definitely push her, so.

It sounds like there's a pathway. Yeah, yeah, that's it, and to be honest, even that, like, it's kind of, it's part of my dream at the minute, but it's like, talking earlier on about, like, why I want to go on, it's because, like, I haven't had a platform given to me, I've had to create my own platform, so, like, there's some coaches in the country that have fighters that fight on their promotion, so their coach goes and promotes a show, and then they fight on it, and they've had, like, regular shows every year, a few times a year, and they fight on it, and it's helped bring them up to a level, and their titles, and their rankings, and stuff. I never had that, so I was always just waiting on the call, or waiting, just saying to a coach, can I get on that show, and all this kind of stuff, so just trying to just go through that, but the promoter doesn't have your best interest at heart, you're fighting 50-50 fights your whole career, whereas I ended up having to start running my own shows, because I wasn't getting any younger, and I'm like, listen, like, I'm waiting on the phone with the ring for a big opportunity internationally, and it's not fucking coming, and I'm like, I'm gonna have to start running my own show, and bringing international guys over, and creating these opportunities, so I did that. Now, the stress that came with that has taken years off my life, but it's like, it's worth it, you know, if you wanted, if I wanted to do something, which I did, you make it happen, you know, like, I had a big suit under the sun, the opportunities didn't come, blah, blah, blah, it could have been, you know, an old man saying that kind of stuff, but if you want it bad enough, you make it happen, you know, so I made it happen, with the help of some people, but I made it happen, and accomplished what I wanted to accomplish, and we'll keep it rolling now, but there's other coaches that have had that platform, and given it to their fighters, and that's kind of what I want to do going forward, so I want, like, with my boys, I'm like, right, we're gonna have two shows a year, hopefully more in the future, well, two shows a year, and you can guarantee you're gonna get two fights a year, and you know that you're gonna have them spaced out throughout the year, so you have some sort of plan in place throughout the year, whereas I was always waiting on a last minute call to go over and fight somebody, fight the hometown fighter, you know, and it's not, it's not feasible, you know, especially now with a kid, I can't be just taking a call and flying off to England next weekend, or flying to Switzerland, or flying, you know, to wherever, so that's, that was the main thing I said, we're gonna take, take a bit more control with my own hands, and make this stuff happen, and both going forward with my own students, and especially with Faye, if she did end up doing kickboxing, there'd be no more pride than helping plan her path, you know, through these rankings, and again, having me, someone that's been there and done it, you know, it'd be like, right, step, we step, we step, we step, and it'd be fucking class, you know, but listen, we'll, how do I get the basketball out of her system first, and then we'll, here we go, you know.

Has the way you see the world changed since having a daughter? Yeah, it's the whole fun, that's, specifically having a girl, like, as you're, as you're a child, do you see the world that they are growing up into differently?

Yeah, yeah, it's just a different mindset, and to be honest, yeah, it's definitely changed, changed as soon as we found out, because I've no sisters, I've only got one brother, and so we've never had any sort of, apart from my mom, like, we've never had any female, like, babies or anything like that in the family, close, you know, close to us, we've never had that in our family, so that, it is definitely new to us. Again, things like that makes you think a little bit differently, so I remember, even when I ran the show last year, now, not gonna be wrong, it's good times, and I'm delighted to be able to see, like, like, you see women's football and women's basketball and stuff like that on the, on the telly, and it's great, and it's, it's on the rise big time, so that's amazing.

A lot more mainstream, and they're getting their own, kind of, role models to look up to and stuff, which is amazing, and, but it's definitely even something for myself, and with trying to work alongside female kickboxers my whole life, and I never told them, I need you for me, but they definitely all get the same opportunities, and it's, you know, it's, without a doubt, you know, it does, and it's, they're catching up, but there's still, there's still a big difference, there's still a bit of work to be done, and even when I was running the show last year, I think I had two or three girl fights, and then they all fell through, and I, and I remember, I kept one of them, but that was a big thing, that was like, I need to keep that girl fight, like, I can't have just an all-male card, even with that in the back of my head, it was like, if I'm gonna have a daughter now soon, and here I am with just an all-male card, it's very easy to do it as a promoter, it's very easy to just not have females on, it's, it's a thing that can be overlooked super quick, super easy, to be honest, but I've made an effort to be like, I need to have a female foot in the card, and same again there, the last show, and same again with this one coming up now in November, it's like, you need to, need to make the effort to want to have females, and give them the opportunity, and, and even when, even like, doing the, the tickets and the poster for the show last year, sorry, this year, we, we got the picture, the girls on it, which is, you know, like simple things like that, but again, it has changed, so when you say it now, it's affected those little decisions that, that we've, we've made over the last little while in regards, and it's, it's because I'm thinking of down the line, you know, if, how would I like my daughter to be treated, like, to be given the opportunities, and it's definitely, it's definitely affected, and those kind of decisions that I've made, and, but it's, it's good times for, for female sport, so hopefully it continues to go that way.